"I have a title for the next album but I won’t tell. It’s going to be a cruel record. Vengeance is mine." mtvhive.com/2012/09/14/bil…— Hipsters United (@HipstersUnited) September 18, 2012
Billy’s tired of bs. Seems like this is going to be the heavy record I’ve been waiting for. Put as rome burns on the new record and release it as a single Billy. Unless of course you’ve got something better.
It will be called “You and your island continent can go f itself, aka don’t fuck with me”. lolol
safe to say that he was just joking
Billy is fucking with us again. new album is gonna be synth pop. how long have you guys been fans? when BC says something like this … it means he will do something totally different.
as rome burns = token “underrated” SP rarity.
“99 Floors the real underrated rarity”
And Billy was just being Billy… I also doubt the album comes out next year.
I actually wouldn’t be surprised if the next album had some harder-rocking songs on it. Billy doesn’t put out albums back to back that are really in the same vein. Plus, recently (in the past few months) Billy’s been talking about how much he enjoys playing X.Y.U., he’s taken out a lot of heavier material again for this tour and the European festival dates (notably X.Y.U itself, Everlasting Gaze, Neverlost), and he’s insinuated that the band has had a lot of fun playing in that more “aggressive” style. Billy commented in an interview about his writing process that for Oceania, instead of adding every single idea he had to a song like he usually does, the band instead tried to play with space more, and that on the next record, that layering would probably come back. Then there was the comment that Billy hoped Mike would bring some more of “his inner Neil Pert” to the next record…this isn’t something I’m necessarily hoping for, but he’s gotta move somewhere.
cruel record = the smashing ichabods
Considering Billy is saying Vengeance is mine, I figure the new album is going to be called “James Iha is a piece of shit!”
Billy’s pissed! I want that new record to be so damn heavy that I get my ass kicked with every time I hear it lol. And he wants Mike to play like Neil Peart? My God this is going to be amazing.
So people want Zeitgeist #2? I might come across as crude but us Pumpkins fans really have no idea what we want…
A) I <3 Zeitgeist. Would I want another?…..hm.
B) When I suggested that the band may actually move in a "heavier"/"more rockin'" direction, I meant in some way that is actually very little like Zeitgeist. That's just not the new band's style as far as I can tell from studio work and how they approach Zeitgeist songs in concert. I really think where Oceania drew upon Billy's love of Pink Floyd, the new album may play more with his Rush influence (BASELESS SPECULATION). But some neo-Pumpkins version of heavy that we probably can't even think of (that's why we have Billy!)
Zeitgeist outtakes though. Absolutely. Sign me up.
@Johnny…. er.. did you just cite Neverlost as a heavier song?
I think a record could be heavy without replicating Zeitgeist. As Rome Burns doesn’t necessarily sound like it belongs on Z…
On an awesome note, he’s busting out Gossamer for this tour!!
I’m hoping for: Tales of a Scorched Oceania :D
@Johnny: that’s good to hear about Peart. Mike’s a Portnoy fan, too :)
gossamer/black sunshine…..the white zombie tune?
If heavy also means profound, that would be great. He should be writing more songs like the first 5 or so songs of Oceania, and backward clock society songs that are not exactly heavy but profound imo, rather than light pop songs like chimera glissandra inkless which are irritatingly boring &forgettable and just have no depth.
There’s that word again. “Heavy.” Why are things so heavy in the future? Is there a problem with the Earth’s gravitational pull?
Neverlost is heavy? Chimera is a light pop song?? What albums are you guys listening to?
Sorry dude but what a load of bullshit. “The Chimera” through “Inkless” is totally badass. Not much “pop” there. Screw that.
Although I also think the first 6-7 songs from Oceania are the strongest, I so totally don’t agree with your contemptuous comment. Geez….
Neverlost “heavy” also got me scratching my head…
I swear you guys, in the last 2-3 weeks there has been a sudden outpouring of hatred for ‘Oceania’ in our comments and to some degree on the oboard too. People coming out of the woodwork to call it too “poppy.” Where is this coming from? Because up until now I was hearing almost all positives from the fan community.
Are you just getting tired of it or something? I just don’t get this criticism that this record is too poppy.
I totally agree with you Susan. I just don’t get it. It’s still the same much praised album than it was in june. It’s still as awesome. The haters always speak louder or longer than the lovers or what??
I love Oceania….still!!! :-D
It’s perfect as it is.
Well Susan, I have always announced my issues with Oceania since the get go, but at the same time I made it very clear that it is a good album. But this is typical SP fanbase, “something comes out, we rave, weeks later we dis it.” Don’t get me started on how many times a Teargarden song came out and many of us gawked on how amazing it was then turned around and said it was not what we wanted (The Fellowship being the most accused of this).
In all, I honestly think (just a theory here) that peoples issues are less in lines with what style the Pumpkins play and more to do with how relevant they are. Sounds like most people want a, “insert philosophical radiohead/indie cool band here,” kind of thing. From both a musical and popularity aspect.
I think the people that want that straight up rock record should remember how Machina and Zeitgeist were viewed by the fan base upon release (pretty negative). It took a really long time for most of us to appreciate Machina, and Zeitgeist is just starting to get that respect it should have gotten since day one. With that said, Mellon Collie part 2 will never happen folks and lets hope it never does.
the problem with oceania isn’t that it is poppy. the problem is the music is boring.
^Except that it is not boring at all….
yeah it is.
I think Oceania is poppy, and I like it BECAUSE of that, not in spite of it (since when is ‘pop’ a bad thing, especially in regard to the Pumpkins?). I can see the Glissandra/Inkless/Chimera being called poppy thing, though they’re certainly not ‘light’ pop (1979, anyone??).
Fatigue might be setting in for some people who may have listened to it too much so it’s starting to wear on them and they’re turning hypercritical. The first half of the album is mos def the strongest for me and features the songs I hit ‘repeat’ on most, but none of them are ones I would skip every listen.
its kinda ironic that billy ranted about the music industry needing dangerous bands/music then releases a really lackluster album.
this new billy corgan who wears scarfs and his socks really high and seems to really care about his indie cred, a pop album isn’t good for his cred.
I’ve heard Billy talk about another possible double album. I think this would be great and would hope to hear everything from acoustic to heavy and everything in between!!!
I would say I’d like a recorded “99 Floors” but after what happened to “Owata” I’m not so sure… :P
and yeah what is this black sunshine business, new song?
Someone posted that there is a White Zombie song named “Black Sunshine,” which I googled and that appears to be the case. It seems a little odd that SP would cover Black Sunshine, as I kind of think of them as being from the same generation as SP, although maybe that’s not strictly true.
The other thing that came to mind was the “Black Sunshine” set from the 20th Anniversary tour. But no, there’s no SP song named “Black Sunshine.” That we know of. Yet.
Anyone have a link to a recent interview where Billy mentions a new double album? I’ve seen several people refer to this in comments but nowhere else. I haven’t really been following band news all summer.
Nevermind, I found it:
skullivan, that was the first time he mentioned this idea of a new double album but I think there have been other mentions since then. Some of them may have been from the reams of radio interviews he did this summer, and I couldn’t possibly go back and find them all now. But yeah, he’s definitely put the double album idea out there and clearly was going through some songs and maybe doing demos leading up to the tour rehearsals that started a few days ago.
Lately I’m coming to the realization that I was a much happier SP fan before I started chatting and discussing about the band on the internet. I only started doing so around 2007. I should stop.
SP fans are lame, generally speaking.
Fortunately, some are awesome. Some are great people. I got to meet a couple of those. Luckily.
Sorry for being so straight forward.
Am I the only one who feels that way?
I mean, when I take time to discuss a band on the internet, it’s because I love what they do.
Otherwise that’s just loser mentality IMO.
@Is he one?
yes Chimera through Inkless just doesnt cut it to me. Those songs are poppy song arranged heavy to me – driven by heavy yet boring guitar, monotonous bang-bang drums and uninspiring melody and lyrics – just forgettable. It’s my personal taste after all, not forcing anyone. I do think tho that If anyone really think these songs are on par with songs like SIYL, jellybelly etc, then it’s up to you.
I’m interested in SP, that’s why I’m here.
I LOVE many of recent unreleased songs, which of corse is my personal taste too. If anyone really think songs like Oceania, Pinwheels, Wildflower etc are better than Gossamer, Make It Happen, When The Cock Crows, Circular Change, Emerald Green etc etc, then again it’s up to you.
i LOVE the guitars on inkless, probably my favorite guitar tracks he has recorded since ‘mary star of the sea’. favorites on oceania after a few months = inkless, oceania, pinwheels, 1d1h. i definitely think inkless is a great track in league of jellybelly, and siyl and those are both all time top 20 for me. total opposite in that i don’t think the 1st half of the album is as strong song-wise as most of the albums he has made, however i will definitely say that oceania is the best sounding album he has done probably since adore. song wise others than the ones i mentioned, i prefer almost all of the stuff, zwan/tfe/machina/some of teargarden, the mainstream fans tend to hate. to each their own, that is the beauty of diverse music.
@susan Very cool. If they pull an MCIS (record for 6 months, release a few months later) they might even have it out by Billy’s recently stated goal of December 2013. Even if it ends up coming out mid-to-late 2014, a 2.5 year wait for a double album is OK with me.
more i hear oceania the more i like it – not that topspin have sent me my fucking copy of it yet
i think it is a classic pumpkins album from a gr8 incarnation of the group
@Is he one?
Yes, follow your instincts and stop commenting!
I was expecting that kind of douchebag reply. Thanks for the great advice.
Don’t go! I enjoy the conversations we have in these comments.
I think I’m becoming paranoid, I suspected sarcasm at first from your comment but truly I think it’s always been fun and courteous discussing with you so I give you back the compliment. You’re cool! :)
Just gotta ignore the haters. i mean, i love this band and i still recognize that i spend too much time on the forums/etc… i just don’t know what to say to people who spend even more time thinking/talking/posting about this band that don’t even like em anymore!
also, Oceania is awesome and a gift that keeps on giving. zeitgeist has great drums other than that its headache inducing.
and, as far as making a “dangerous” album…. has any SP album been truly “dangerous”? Awesome, yes. Bold and risky, yes. Dangerous, I don’t know…
True that, my thoughts exactly. I gotta learn to ignore.
I like Zeitgeist more than you do though. “That’s the way”, “7 shades of black”, “Tarantula” and “Bring the light” are standout tracks to me, really.
This said,I also prefer Oceania which I consider stronger from A to Z.
My favourite SP will always be the Machina albums. They didn’t have to grow on me either. I mean the first time I heard the Everlasting Gaze I was blown Away. I don’t think the new band has topped Machina yet. They just might with the new record though. I also believe that they are not as good live as the original band. I was listening to a bootleg called blackout. When they played Geek USA it was so damn fast towards the end. The new band will get there though because they have potential.
@is he one?, you’re one of the more interesting people around here, so please stick around. :)
In terms of why teh fandom is the way it is…The problem (I think) is that the band just has so much baggage with so many people. When I try and explain why I like the band to people who don’t, or who just don’t understand why I seek out every b-side or why I bought $100 Bose headphones to hear Oceania for the first time (the first time an SP record came out while I was a fan :) ) I tell them that when you find that “high” like I do with the Pumpkins, you never stop searching for it again. We’ve all felt that at some point. Some people just can’t get passed how much Billy’s music moved them in 91, 93, 95, 98, ’00 or 07, and they are still looking for that high–when they feel like Billy doesn’t deliver, they wind up here, on fan sites, trying to rationalize that with some of the only other people they can relate to. While I honestly enjoy everything Billy’s slapped his name on since Gish, if the Pumpkins came out with a record that I totally just didn’t understand or that left me cold…I have to say, I would be pretty upset, not with Billy, but just at that perceived loss. Fortunately for me, that hasn’t happened, and by all indication it won’t :)
Aaaanyways. Oceania still blows my mind. I listen to “Oceania” the song nearly on repeat, and the whole thing has just been great. Why some people have decided that they no longer like it (for whatever concocted reason–I personally do NOT find Oceania markedly poppier than Siamese Dream) is beyond me. I would say there are probably just fewer people going around talking publicly about how wonderful it is (cuz that would be a little weird…) and so the disaffected people (see paragraph above) seem more representative than they are.
Thank you very much Johnny, I truly appreciate your comment. And I want to send it back to you! Pleasure!
And your explanation actually makes A LOT of sense. I think I agree with that totally.
And I guess I had a romantic vision of the SP fan community before I actually got acquainted with it. Like I said, I met some tremendous, wonderful men and women on SP forums. Just sadly not the majority as far as I’m concerned.
Still worth it I guess.
Good comment, Johnny. So true that a lot of people are still chasing that high. I would propose that listening to music is one of many ways in life to have a trancendant experience. if listening to SP did that for you and no longer does, it’s probably time to let them go and go find something new to give you wings. especially with the current SP being so positive, continuing to take to the internet to bitch about billy-this or iha-that…. it really only brings you, the jaded, down.
Werideatdusk you’re exactly right. I’ve said on here before that I’ve been really into Coheed and Cambria lately. I can listen to their albums everyday and not get sick of them. Its just like it was when I first got really into the Pumpkins in 94. So I guess you could say I’m one of those jaded pumpkins fans. I loved Oceania when I first heard it and its a great album but I don’t like the fact that it doesn’t have enough rock songs for my taste. Its really good though. But with Coheed they exceed my expectations every time. I’m sticking around to see what Billy is going to do with his band.
Ha, I’m glad I was able to articulate something that resonated. :) I don’t think anyone who has ever felt that from Billy will ever ignore hime, for better or worse (just like I won’t ever be able to ignore My Chemical Romance altogether…ah, to be 13..). Nor do I think they should. But if you can achieve that level of self recognition, I think you can have a better experience with music in general, and help you find new ways to transcend.
Just the fact that we can have discussions like these with mutual understanding is reason enough for me to come to fan sites (thanks HU!)
@is he one: There are different reasons people come online to chat, and unfortunately they all wind up on the same board. Some people want to come together and celebrate the band they love without all the criticism. Others like to argue and/or tear things down. Others want a critical, intellectual debate.
Personally I’d like a website where I could come and celebrate the music I love without all the critical aspects – not that there isn’t a place for it, I’m just not interested. I think of it like church – people go to church to celebrate their religion and learn and grow and they don’t have to put up with a roomful of atheists tearing their beliefs down.
It’s just not a lot of fun coming to a forum when you want to celebrate the band and you have to put up with comments about Billy’s weight, Mike’s failure to mimick Jimmy, and how hot did Nicole look (or not look) last night. You can ignore it to a degree, but it definitely puts a damper on things.
Sure there’s a place for critical debate (though I don’t think there’s a place for Billy sucks since MCIS! You’re an idiot if you like TOASE), but there’s also a place for just gathering together to appreciate something. Becuase whether everything SP has done is perfect or not, SP really is a wonderful thing and I’m grateful to have spent the last 18 years following them.
I’m grateful for every single note SP has released over the years. Art truly is a gift and it’s sad that some have to tear it down.
They’re not tearing it down. As an artist, you place your work in the public realm and invite judgement. This is more than fair especially considering that it not really a gift when it is paid for (although this is not the case much of the time!). I love Oceania, I think it’s a joyous record and bodes very well for the future of the band.
I respectfully disagree. There is legitmate criticism on one hand (and I think Billy craves that – he probably wouldn’t be happy without it), but most of what occurs these days is just a tearing down of people’s work. This lackluster media and the anonymous posting society we have is lacking. Everyone seems to be pushing an agenda, and the discussion about anyone’s art seems less to do about that piece of art and more to do with what the writer/poster is trying to push/sell to the reader or how they are trying to appear. There is very little intelligent, thoughtful, honest debate online or in the media these days. It’s mainly about volume, ‘getting someone’s goat’ online, ego exaltation, and selling.
I’ve been an artist myself for 13 years so I definitely have my own personal opinions on the matter. Real, honest art has a higher calling and higher purpose than it’s given credit for.
I think our way of undestanding and judging art is outdated. I have very strong opinions on this that I know most won’t agree with, and I’m not here to convince anyone. But I feel that artistic (including music) criticism as we know it is obsolete. There IS a place for it, but it needs to change. I don’t see what purpose ‘this’ is serving.
@Steven, I dream of that kind of place too! :)
@Is he one? Shoot me an email and we can chat about SP. You can click on my name and it’ll take you to a page with my email. I remember listessa, and how that that was delivered via email and it was mostly about excitement and sharing our appreciation for the band (although I wasn’t on it for long – I can’t speak to the overall experience of it)
Isn’t that what they do at Crestfallen? Just gush over the band? In some respects I think that’s great, and I look for it too sometimes (*why I have an account on the O-board). I enjoy talking about how great Gossamer is too, don’t get me wrong, but what I think is great about this site is that people with our shared experience of connection to the music of the Smashing Pumpkins can engage in debate and discussion of various aspects of not only the band’s music, but also “the news” (their politics, business, spirituality, and history) and of the general milieu and culture of how the band is received, perceived, and why (across the broader culture and especially the contemporary web media) as well as how the fit into the narrative of broader topics and the narrative of the band itself. I appreciate how that forum informs how I think about something that, yes, means a lot to me (and presumably all of us).
The o-board is a pretty decent atmosphere, for the most part. I hear the forum at ThePumpkins.net is for the SP-lovers only. Just stay the hell away from the rotting black hole that is netphoria!
and, yes, people misunderstand the place of art because our culture puts so much emphasis on the final “product” and not on a real, vested interest in the growth of artists. So people will continue to put “Siamese Dream” on a pedestal while tearing down Billy as a human being. It’s unfortunate, because he is a bold artist and all of his work, even the sort-of-turds, have some merit and paint a bigger picture.
but great art comes not out of ambition to make a perfect product and move on. it’s an alchemical process in which the ego must be suppressed in order to let the subconscious speak through you. and to perfect the crafts that allow the power of your feelings to translate to others. sadly, this fact is concealed from view and most bloggers/journalists are content to just focus on finding the “new thing”, one more distraction to hide them from the fact that they are ignoring their own potential as artists, creators, and people! Yeah i said it, suck it bloogers!
Oceania is great. I’d like to see more shoe-gaze (especially Lonely is the Name type of songs). but I understand that if you stick to one type of music for more than a couple years you go crazy
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