For Grantland.com, Steven Hyden conceptualizes “Billy Corgan’s Quest for Cool.”
I’m surprised Grantland was able to find the time to write about Billy and the Pumpkins. Surely there was some Azealia Banks or Kitty Pryde news to report?
“…a solid stab at rewriting the epic Gish era B-side “Starla” (the nine-minute multi-part title track)”
@Kiernana: Haha, yes, that is precisely the line that stuck in my head as, like, “OK, for whatever and however much is right about this piece, this here is just wrong.”
The comparison of The Celestials to Disarm has been made a few times now, and I just don’t get it. They both have strings? Celestials has structural components that Disarm doesn’t. As far as I can tell, their lyrical themes are very different. When a band has a catalog as large and varied as the Pumpkins, you could compare any song to *something* they’ve done in the past.
Heh, It was actually an interesting read, jjb, but that line I cited right there was just lazy.
And chris I had the same thought about the Disarm/Celestials comparison. What the heck. I think it’s that laziness getting the better of ppl again.
I don’t understand why people need to reach to compare these songs specifically to songs from the back catalogue. I see glimmers of other songs and some shared themes, but really I just feel Oceania should be enjoyed for what it is.
“‘Siva’ is a reasonable attempt to bridge the gap between ‘Razor’ and ‘Stars Fall In’…”
calling nicole a “fake d’arcy” is incredibly offensive and borderline misogynist.
as oceania proves, nicole is twice the bass player d’arcy ever was. plus, she’s a class act.
plus she’s a HUMAN BEING.
fuck you hyden
does it hurt for a critic to at least google lyrics?
werideatdusk *Slow claps* couldn’t have said it better.
yeah… author of that was a major tool
Oh shit. What an asshole. Painful read. But hey ”know your enemy”. Agreed with ”werideatdusk” too. No respect.
Why did that guy waste his time complaining? He could have just said “I don’t really like Billy Corgan, so I’m going to go do something that interests me instead” and I would’ve accepted it, but coming up with all these B.S. reasons was a waste of his time, and ours.
I totally have been thinking the same thing, lots of reviews and comments have made that comparison and I honestly do not see it in any shape or form. The strings are not even the same format, those are synths for crying out loud.
Oh but what a funny read, “fake D’arcy…” that was just too funny. Also, I really dislike that many who give their “professional” review of the album feel an obligation to compare everything to some other Pumpkins song even if they have little to no correlation (The Celestials…) I can see some similarities with some songs like Quesar, Inkless and The Chimera, but peoples accusations are a tad too extreme. I think Jason was right with his prediction in the second to last podcast. Critics are pulling the old band member card for too often.
If someone had said “Quasar” sounds like “Superchrist” I would agree. The riff is very similar. “Celestials” however sounds nothing like Disarm.
On a side note, I was looking at the lyrics of Violet Rays and I couldn’t help but feel they’re sort of mismatched at time. It goes from incredible lyrics like “Faithless moors pulling up your oars from rivers I have crossed.” to “I’ll kiss anyone tonight.”. I don’t have an issue with either of those lyrics, but I just think it’s odd. I’m also glad to read that the lyrics goes “I’m so easy to know”. The way he sings it, it originally sounded like he was saying he was easy in a different way.
lost me at fake darcy
@JCelsius: Compare those lyrics with a song a few spots below Violet Rays on the iTunes top 200: “Ladies love us/When we pour shots/They need an excuse/To suck our cocks (suck my cock!)”. Suddenly “I’ll kiss anyone tonight” sounds pretty poetic doesn’t it? :)
Bravo werideatdusk. Hyden’s comment about Nicole shows his character and his agenda here. Nicole’s additions to this album are absolutely wonderful. From all I can tell, she is also a very nice person, which can’t be said for Hyden. What a jerk. What kind of person attacks someone like that unprovoked? Hyden is a mean-spirited full of himself fancy schmancy wannabe intelligentsia super cool hipster douchebag.
I sooooooo see why Billy has a hard time with the critics and the internets.
I also agree that people are making way too many unsubstantiated this song sounds like that song comparisons. Celestials and Disarm are like 3rd cousins at best. The mood of the songs are not even similar.
Hyden is a bully – just wanted to say that again.
“If you’ve been following Corgan for these last 20 years, and know how to parse the cogent thoughts from his thatches of twisty-turny grandiosity, you might understand that he’s not talking at all about Radiohead here, and only a little bit about Weird Al and perhaps slightly more about Ritchie Blackmore. That Billy Corgan quote is mainly about Billy Corgan”
And who is Steven Hyden talking about in his articles?
Here’s a guy who clearly read the Pitchfork review before making an attempt and said, “I’ll see your comparison of Pale Horse to Thru the Eyes of Ruby and Disarm to Celestials and raise you a comparison of Oceania to Starla!”
I’m inclined to either believe these people are either 1. tone deaf 2. just plain ignorant about the Pumpkins and have zero inclination toward journalistic responsibility since it’s only a critique. The really weird thing is that the review of Oceania itself is almost thoroughly complimentary, but every single compliment is backhanded (lovely duet with fake d’arcy this, nice Achtung Baby ripoff that). So you basically have a review that builds a case of why he resents BC on a personal level and then why despite his best efforts to hate the album for non-music related reasons, he couldn’t. What a dipshit.
Yea, I’m a pretty big U2 fan and “Pale Horse” doesn’t give me a U2 vibe at all. The reviewer was just taking one of U2′s most well known albums and making wild accusations to make him seem like he’s in the know. Oceania to Starla? The only real similarity is they’re both in three parts.
“and I still haven’t found, a pale looking horse”
rofl sounds like U2 my arse. Its got a guitar chord in it your ripping off everyone…
I’m really getting tired of reading reviews that spend 2 paragraphs slagging off Bill for being a bit of a curmudgeonly old git and two lines talking about the music. Some of the comparisons that I’ve read have been just unbelievable. Fools.
Pale Horse gives me a Pink Floyd vibe, not a U2 vibe.
Pinwheels reminds me a bit of John Lennon.
funny – sounds like SP to me. but that’s probably a silly comparison to make.
Well yeah of course, but if I had to compare those songs to any other musicians that’s who I would choose. I don’t see them as very similar to U2 at all.
that article was clearly written by an idiot…
Hyden’s usually good for some insight/pathos (as far as rock crit can offer those things). This piece is weirdly terrible in comparison to most of his output. Not only are his song comparisons totally daft, but that D’Arcy/Nicole thing is truly nasty. WTF?!?!
Hyden’s just a critic. Can’t make anything important himself, so he tries really really hard to make his reviews sound important.
Well Steven, they aren’t. Who’s the dork trying too hard to fit in now? How about you contribute something worthwhile to society before you start tearing into people and calling Nicole a fake D’arcy?
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