HU Podcast #57: A Stitch in Time, Rolling Stone Article 7:09 pm // Wednesday, March 10, 2010
Posted by chris in billy corgan, magazines, podcast, teargarden by kaleidyscope.trackback
We were planning on podcasting this week anyway to discuss the release of A Stitch in Time, but then the Billy Corgan feature in Rolling Stone was released and consumed the discussion on HU. So we start out talking about the new song, but the bulk of the podcast is devoted to the article.
Listen to the whole show (1:03:00)
(download)(iTunes)
Note: Those trying to subscribe to the podcast through iTunes will be unable to for the near future. We’ve identified the problem and are attempting to work around it. I apologize for the inconvenience.
This week’s topics:
Panelists
-Chris, Jason, Jill, and Andrew
-A Stitch in Time reactions. There seemed to be a positive consensus on this one, and we were no different. (6:12)
-The Jimmy Chamberlin firing. Why does Billy seem to protect people in the short term but throw them under the bus in the long term? (17:05)
-Billy’s nontraditional beliefs pop up again in the Rolling Stone article. How hard is it to separate the man from the music? (9:07)
-Miscellaneous Rolling Stone comments. Why do some fans give up on the band whenever Billy says something a little unusual? Why would Billy volunteer for this in the first place? (25:59)
Song of the Week
-A Stitch in Time, Visalia, CA August 26, 2009
yo jjb, has anyone ever told you that you sound like billy corgan?
by that, i mean an asshole
<3 <# <3
itunes subscription still not working for me…
you mean you actually want to subscribe to this? man!
LOL floppy.
I quite enjoyed the Jimmy portion of the podcast. The contradiction between love/spirituality and then throwing Jimmy under the bus? he’s just full of shit and is really an asshole underneath it all.. like courtney said a couple months back.
is it just me or was there a part where a horn honked? sometimes retards on my aim list decide they need creative sign on/off sounds so i never know.
i heard a horn honk too. did you guys get a sound fx guy ala howard stern?
and my good god. . . jill is on fire!!
lol @ jill mentioning me posting the rolling stone editors blurb and calling me what sounds to be flappy.
I thought this podcast was fair and offered some good critical analysis. I thought Jilly had some thought provoking things to say. Interesting point about efhtt, it does seem to go against everything he has said on there. The love, peace, and forgiveness parts and how how should not be controlled by your past mistakes, etc. I think it is the hypocrisy that is troublesome the most. I thought that he was being honest and progressing but when you look at his actions it does not correlate with his words on the site. In hindsight it does seem like there is an ulterior motive with efhtt, it did get him a book deal after all. I don’t agree with Jason that Billy is playing up some of these things, like you guys mentioned, Billy has no tact. He has never been shy about talking about these things and if he truly believes these things then he probably wouldn’t be shy about saying them…and living in Hollywood, it probably doesn’t seem so odd.
@Adam Brooklyn-style ambiance!
The fact that this fan-podcast spends a little over 6 minutes talking about music and the next hour discussing why or why not billy corgan is a washed up asshole is a testament to why billy is in fact nothing more than a giant washed up asshole.
Once again, corgan should just pack it in and sign that reality tv contract.
I’m going to go listen to some new, and interesting music now…
I also liked the “you don’t induct yourself into the rock n’ roll hall of fame” quip.
@Johnny Goat
It has and should be always about the music. However, Billy conducted himself terribly in that interview, it was bound to leave a sour taste in some people’s mouths. Usually HU is really defensive of Billy and SP, I’ve even seen them being accused of being “Billy apologists.” What Billy did is hard to defend and I thought they were fair on this issue. He doesn’t have to pack it up, he just needs to stop blaming others for everything, unfortunately he seems to have a “my way or the highway” mentality.
I agree with halo. the podcast was filled with fair and reasonable thoughts. I was super happy to hear the positive energy around stitch in time, but i was sad to hear that the whole world doesn’t feel the same way i do about Annie-dog :( I love that song… Its one of my favorites on Adore. Oh well ;)
I’d like to point out for as much as you guys were saying “Smashing Pumpkins fans should be used to this”, you guys filled an hour with discussion and ranting about how perplexing his “usual behavior” is.
Just sayin’. Think about it.
There’s a difference between his weird behavior then and now. The patterns and content may be similar, but there’s _something_ different which makes it such that his work is not resonating with people.
Think about it.
… oh and a Stitch in Time is a horrible song, and you are all sheep.
I’m having a hard time understanding all this “washed up asshole” business. If most people agree that the music he is making now is better than it was before then isn’t he the exact opposite? I don’t seem to remember people calling him that when he said he would give away 44+ songs for free.
@matt what time period are you referring to when you say “before”? because most people think the music he is making now is not as good as his past output.
Probably means his best in a while which I agree. To those who say he should pack it in or he’s irrevelant or whatever are just flinging shit for the sake of it.
I love Billy Corgan .. we are all strange, so what!?
re: the car horn, yes, that was an actual car and not a sound effects board. I could have edited it out, but it sounded like I used a horn noise to censor swearing or something and it sounded funny, so I left it in.
love your pic pick. thanks for the site and for coming back and coming back so well
@chris yeah i got a lol out of it but i wasn’t sure if it was something on my end since retards on my list tend to modify their sounds.
there is this one piece of shit on my list that i know i haven’t talked to in years but when they sign off they play a linkin park song and by the time i figure out why my ears are being offended and go to check there is no clue left as to who it is. i am waiting for the day when i can find out and remove them from LIFE.
At 19:38 is someone flossing their teeth?
@ halo: Should billy pack it in? Most probably should. With his constant barrage of horrible PR and general lackluster music reviews he’s just clinging to some vague barely existent thread of commercial success, critical success, and relevancy. It’s sad.
@ matt: In regards to billy being a “washed up asshole”: If for the most part, the ONLY people listening to your music is your relatively small fanbase, and you have no qualms shitting on them in live concerts, then yeah, I think that constitutes “washed up asshole.” Also, the only positive reviews he’s gotten so far is for a gimmick which has produced only 3 mediocre tunes which have gotten no commercial airplay, and ZERO positive responses from the indie blogs. The only people who care are his ever-shattering fan base whom he seems totally fine with constantly disappointing.
@Stephen Bayne: Are you talking about me flinging shit for the sake of it or Corgan? He has it coming, the guy is a shit flinger. And what’s the saying: “asshole bands have asshole fans.”
@Floppy: Anyone who chooses to be called “Floppy Nono” as their internet pseudonym deserves whatever return nickname I give them. I do reserve that right. :)
And yes, sorry about the ambient noise. At least there weren’t semi-trucks going through my ‘hood, like usual.
@Johnny Goat
I think that maybe he should just drop the SP name instead. It feels like he is only using it now for the name alone. He has already said that he never plans on playing the old songs so I don’t see the point of continuing on with it, especially now that Jimmy is gone. The names comes with a lot of expectations and it might be best for everyone if he just called this latest incarnation spirits in the sky or something else. Billy may have been the principle songwriter but it is unfair to dismiss the contributions of the other members, not just their talent but their personalities, look, and presence in the band contributed to people liking them. By all means Billy is tremendously talented but for all we know without them or some record exec Billy may still be living in his dad’s house.
Perhaps he should rename it: Samuel Aquarian and the good seeds/i. e. perfectly healthy and non-destructive friends, or something like that. Well, I´ve also given it some thought. Using the name somehow doesn´t seem entirely legitimate any longer, especially if Billy desires to sever ties to his musical past (an intention signified and “conveniently sanctified” by jimmy´s departure, I reckon). But I can´t say it really bothers me. He created the title, he can do as he pleases with it.
I think the biggest news here is Chris’ misguided hatred of Glass + the Ghost Children. I mean, WTF?? I don’t even remember the rest of the podcast because I blacked out after that.
@Halo – What expectations does the name come with? The Pumpkins have been about defying expectations since day one. I think Billy Corgan is the only reasonable expectation. This isn’t Alice in Chains with a new lead singer here.
You can’t play the “for all we know” game because for all we know he could have been a bigger success without them. At it’s simplest if you are a Smashing Pumpkins fan you are a fan of Billy Corgan’s music, you may or may not be a fan of him as a person or his persona (which I think people have a tendency to confuse), but you love his music. You’re not a fan of D’arcy’s see through shirts or James’ hair, it’s about the music.
I have a hard time believing that ten years after they broke up and 5 years after they came back this “should he be using the SP name” argument is still going on. It’s as puzzling to me as when people refer to what was basically Smashing Pumpkins 5.0 or 6.0 as Pumpkins 2.0 as if the band had never had a lineup change before.
People knew back in 1994 that Billy was the band, you couldn’t read an article on them without it being mentioned. I still have yet to hear a logical explanation as to why Billy being the band now is so horrible.
The name “Smashing Pumpkins” reminds me of Safeway grocery stores. The original company went under years ago, but a few of the existing buildings are left with the logo/signs still up. You might see a leftover Safeway store occasionally that still has the word “Safeway” hanging on it–but it’s really a different entity altogether.
@ Skullivan
D’arcy’s see-though shirts and James’ hair might not have been real reasons to appreciate the band, but Jimmy’s top-level drumming sure was!
Stop clicking that mouse!
also james and darcy did contribute quite a it musically to some of the pumpkins best material.. a lot more than corgan wants to let on now.
jimmy’s contribution isn’t even up for argument.
D’arcy is very replaceable musically, please.
In Australia they have Safeways – they’re owned by Woolworth’s now. They still exist in NoCal and parts thereabout. Did you know that a Del Monte banana and a can of Del Monte pineapple are sold by two different companies? And CK underwear and CK shirts are sold by different companies, too.
But you know when Zwan was out or the solo Corgan album, people kept whining that it sounds just like the Smashing Pumpkins. I mean, that comment was made repeatedly. So if they’re going to keep saying that, do you think he might as well keep the name?
People want your money – that’s why the brand exists.
i don’t think people give darcy enough credit to the kind of sound she provided to the live band and some of their recorded material. Corgan said himself that ‘she has a melodic sense that can move mountains’ and that he calls her style ‘the swim..’ it glues the band and helps it flow.
my favorite pumpkins sound is when all 4 original members are playing together.. recorded performances like ‘never let me down,’ ‘dancing in the moonlight,’ set the ray to jerry,’ ‘xyu,’ etc etc etc are golden. there’s a huge difference between how she played and how billy played. she added a polite, smoothed over sound, which complemented the busy drums and guitars very well. her absence was especially felt once madm joined the band.. i feel. they had such a difference in over all sound and musical feel. Hell, he playing on shame, as simple as it is, really makes the song.
edit: some of their best recorded material.
I prefered Melissa by very very very far though.
And you’re the first person who plays music that I see defending D’Arcy’s musical abilities.
well, she wasn’t a killer/great standout musician who could rip up a solo, but she was great with playing to the sound of the band, projecting feel and accentuating dynamics. Yes, she’d probably have a hard time fitting in with another group, but keep in mind they were playing some difficult music on a nightly basis, and she fit in with that band perfectly. She’s the longest running bass player of the smashing pumpkins, and so far the bass player that has played with corgan the most. she was there for gish, sd, mcis and adore. she played all of those songs live, and recorded on some great tracks. She wasn’t perfect, but it was a nice way to balance out the sound of the band, giving it more of an alternative edge. MADM was too rough, and had a hard time keeping up with jimmy during some of the machina shows (I remember seeing a stage hand giving her arms a massage about 7 songs into the set during the Lowell MA show in 2000). Ginger didn’t really do it for me either. Paz was great, but she was Zwan. So far Darcy ftw.
Billy on twitter earlier today:
“I want to say that I love being in the Smashing Pumpkins 2day+I really appreciate the great fans of the band+it’s music. “
D’Arcy also played on Machina.
also, i’m not the first musician to defend darcy’s playing. corgan did it back in the 90′s.
@skullivan
Mostly expectations as in what he is going to play. I believe Billy has been saying that he will no longer play any old material, and I think Mike mentioned in an interview that they have not practiced any old songs whatsoever.
(7:24 PM) chris: I wonder what spawned Billy’s tweet?
(7:25 PM) jjb: a butterfly in Tanzania, i think
If Billy Corgan is now in fact “The Smashing Pumpkins” and he just tweeted that he loves “being in the Smashing Pumpkins” is that not in fact THE MOST NARCISSISTIC TWEET EVER? It would be like Barack Obama saying that he loves the President of the United States.
“the only positive reviews he’s gotten so far is for a gimmick which has produced only 3 mediocre tunes which have gotten no commercial airplay, and ZERO positive responses from the indie blogs”
Maybe things are different where you live, but in Chicago on XRT the new stuff from Teargarden is getting a lot of airplay and the DJs are talking about the album a lot from what I have heard.
And its kind of weird that you credit the indie blogs for determining whether the new stuff is good or not considering they are mostly preoccupied with the likes of newer bands no one has ever heard of. I would never even expect an indie blog like Pitchfork or Stereogum to give a shit about SP since they are not indie. Also to maintain their indie cred, they must shit on bands they know their readers don’t like and kiss ass when it comes to bands they know the readers still like such as Animal Collective or Radiohead.
@DiscoJon
It’s certainly weird. I just read his tweets from the past few days and they just seem to range in emotions. First he seems indignant at people’s reactions to his RS interview by telling us that only God can judge him and then he’s telling us how much he loves and appreciates us. Still, it’s nice to see him say these things rather than how much he hates the fans. If he really wants love, forgiveness, peace, and positivity in his life then he will have to live by example. What goes around comes around.
@matt: I agree with you about Pitchfork, however that’s not why discussion about pitchfork appears on HU and this has been explained over and over on the site; it is jjb’s interest in the discourse surrounding the pumpkins and status games that are played in the wider music blogosphere.
As for Billy’s spirituality and all of that mess, I have to agree with a statement from the podcast where it was mentioned that you could guarantee that Billy had ‘goofy’ beliefs back in 88. We’re talking about a man who spent his 20′s on acid, mushrooms and who knows what other psychedelics; also a man who still believes that fringe/alternative movements ala the 60′s had some inherent value for culture and that the 90′s had their chance to do something ‘meaningful’ but failed. When Jill mentions Billy’s collection of positions on spirituality she implies that in order to have a religious position it is desirable to have a stable position, a dogmatic set of beliefs; I disagree strongly here, and need only to point to any set of beliefs any of of us have and ask whether they contradict one another, its ridiculous to ask of Billy Corgan something that we cannot maintain ourselves.
Also, I must say that this notion that a religious belief is somehow in opposition or contest with scientific belief is reductionist and myopic. Myth, Religion, Folk Tales and so on are far more complicated than a ‘primitive science’ or an almost anachronistic stain of the past.
***
“(7:24 PM) chris: I wonder what spawned Billy’s tweet?
(7:25 PM) jjb: a butterfly in Tanzania, i think”
Hilarious :)
@sunkissed
Maybe Jill was referring to how Billy cherry picks ideas (often opposing ones too) from various different religions. I’ve found, from reading his spiritual blog, that he often contradicts himself and often seems lost or doesn’t even understand his own beliefs. Perhaps that is what Jill meant when saying that he needs to have a stable position and stability does lead to a stronger faith.
@sunkissed: I don’t think that anyone said that Billy’s *religious* beliefs are in opposition with scientific beliefs. It’s his rejection of science- and evidence-based medicine in favor of disproven past superstitions and his credulous take on astrology/shamans/psychics/etc that are nonscientific. I wouldn’t call any of those beliefs “religious”, as I would consider a religious belief something that is inherently untestable (there is a loving God figure watching over us).
+100,000 sunkissed
@chris: Surely you must see how the validity of science is in contest with the validity of a religious experience? Obviously in our age science is the truth-telling discourse available to us to verify the validity of something, yes? Billy has called himself a mystic before, and whether we are to take this as a flippant comment about himself or not I think that there is a reasonable case to argue that throughout the Pumpkins catalog you have a privileging of personal experience and insight garnered through that personal experience…which is the grounds of mystic experience, one which doesn’t need to be validated by the sciences because, as it were, it is untestable…
Now, having said that, a ‘rejection’ of evidence based medicine in favor of fringe/alternative practices is something I am studying at the moment at university; specifically the history of western medicine; and I am suggesting that there is a parallel here between the selection and omission of beliefs Billy has in his spiritual practice as with his beliefs for western medicine. I don’t think Billy rejects science or evidence based medicine, in fact he has often used scientific evidence to elucidate his beliefs, and at times support his beliefs; what is at work here is a general lay skepticism that he has for institutions, one which he seems to belie by picking and choosing what he thinks he can integrate into his life in order to better himself ala efhtt which reveals a lot more about Corgan’s overall system of beliefs than anything else we have seen.
to sum all of that up as: The, “Punk Rock” relationship with God as he called it in If All Goes Wrong…
Yes efhtt has revealed that he is ultimately uninformed, paranoid, and ignorant of reality. The site is a complete front for his delusions. My point? He’s a fake.
Also, remember that whole rant he made about forced vaccinations in MA? well I live in MA and I have yet to be given an H1N1 vaccine via force. Many people had to right to and did reject the vaccine, and did not have their doors knocked own as a result.
i meant ‘down’ not ‘own.’ lol i’m typing like billy sang on the 2007 tour :D
Also, ‘warning signs someone may be in a cult’
http://cultclinic.org/qa4.html
Billy posted another tweet. How odd. I can’t remember the last time he has tweeted this much.
“Let God into your heart. You can do it. Don’t be stubborn (like me) and refuse to let Love come in.”
For the record, I was not truly implying that one must have a dogmatic set of beliefs to have a stable spiritual life; in fact, I was trying to be careful not to come off judge-y.
But the fact remains that the beliefs Billy has chosen to share with the internets seem, as Halo said, cherry-picked from loads of different spiritual studies. I was just saying that a lot of people disagree with that approach, especially those embedded in fundamentalist religions.
In fact, I found a pretty funny way of labeling this sort of behavior here — The Cafeterian.
hahahaha…
Finally read the Rolling Stone article… it isn’t so bad. Do I still respect Billy Corgan? Yes. Did the interview, in fact, increase my respect for Billy Corgan? Yes. Just compare him to all the aimless, lost soul couch potatoes of the world to get some perspective. Ask yourself why no one spends time trashing them. We’re creating an unambitious, helpless society.
Billy Corgan’s doing just fine.
I like Stitch in Time. Who sings backup, Linda S? She sounds good.
@stitch
Billy sings the backup. Linda did participate in the recording but her voice is only use as a “shadow” over Billy’s voice. She said it herself lately.
By the way, I’m not saying that I agree in any capacity with Billy’s posts on efhtt or what he said in interviews and so on; I’m just trying to provide some sort of view that attempts to bring some of his personal musings together with the pumpkins catalog…mind-body-spirit integration anyone? haha.
I think it’s fine for people to believe in things and cherry pick ideas from other religions. They say the truth isn’t found in just one belief system it’s hidden in parts in all of them. Agnosticism is not a bad thing.
I think it doesn’t matter (always) what you believe but that you believe in something… even if it’s just yourself, or hell, even Science.
I mean many times skeptics or atheism sounds as weird to me as my beliefs might sound to an atheist or skeptic or traditional xian or another weirdo with different beliefs. I agree that it’s weird he feels he has to put his beliefs on display or parade NOW* I mean, obviously he always had them *google Star Children*…
But maybe that’s just what he feels he should do right now, to each their own.
However putting Jimmy up on the cross is sad and disheartening… I do not agree with Billy playing the perpetual victim EVERY TIME… idk.
Finally gets around to listen to this.., and from now on, at shows I am just gonna say or sport the Tshirt “I’m with the cult”;0 LOL
And this HU podcast totally inspires one to write the screenplay “The Greatest Movie Ever Made” starring Tom Cruise.
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